Group Role Play: The Most Powerful Learning Tool Most Faciliators Avoid with Heli Nehama Ozery

Luis Malbas  
I Hello everybody. Welcome back to the last session of the day here at the Immersive Learning Conference produced by the training, learning and development community. Welcome, welcome, welcome. Last two sessions we've had today were absolutely fantastic. Hopefully you're able to attend both of those. If not, you can go back and take a look at the recordings. I'll have the recordings up for a limited time, and then I will be moving those recordings after they're formatted, over to the tldc.com website, and then members can access them there. So if you'd like just today or the next few days, I'm sure you'll be able to get to them for free in the in the crowd class, Crowdcast platform. All right, and let's check to see if you could just let me know where you're logging in from. Just want to shout out to say hi to Kim and Abby. Sylvia, Laura's back. Ephra, thanks. Great to see you in here. Yeah, just type in chat if you can, just to make sure that we've got that interface going. And also want to let you know there is a poll available for you to to fill out if you'd like. If you go to the right hand side of the screen, you'll see a series of icons. One of them has it looks like, sort of like some a graphic that has a columns in it. So if you click on that one, that'll get you the polls. Feel free to participate in that poll on the right hand side, all right, and yes, I can see Pam and Danielle from Albany, Oregon, Laura from Arizona, Karen at Victoria. BC, that's great, excellent. All right, so I'm going to go ahead and introduce you to our next speaker that is Helly nehama. Ozary heli is a leadership development expert and Experiential Learning Designer with over 15 years of experience helping organizations turn insight into action. As the founder of Artemis od she partners with global companies across industries to design and facilitate learning experiences that drive real behavioral change. Ellie specializes in making complex leadership skills feel practical, human and coachable, whether working with executive teams leading in person sessions or designing virtual learning programs. And with that, heli I'm going to go ahead and unmute you from the microphone, and thank you for presenting your session today. Group, role play the most powerful learning tool most facilitators avoid.

Heli Nehama Ozery  
Hi. Everyone. Thank you, Luis for having me. I'm so happy to be here today.

So yeah, my name is Heli and I'm leadership development consultant and group facilitator, and we're going to talk about a subject that I hold very dear to my heart, and so I'll quickly introduce myself and give you a little bit of background, and then we'll dive into our topic for today. So you know, when thinking about back into what I do and focusing on learning, and specifically soft skills, leadership skills, communication skills. It all started when I was a little girl in a monthly school, and I remember sitting in class and getting really bored, and film got so smart. And as you can see, there was usually a teacher standing talking, I call it tst. So they were talking about the time I got over listening, and it really shaped the way I felt I was learning

I hear that there's a problem with my mic. Someone about hearing, okay,

Luis Malbas  
I think Kelly, if the I think your mic is a little loud, like it sounds like the game a little high. I'm not sure if you can easily

Heli Nehama Ozery  
see, is it now better? And I just lowered it down a bit. Let me know if it's still is too loud, or lowered

Luis Malbas  
a little bit more place, or maybe, like, maybe another 30% is it okay now,

Heli Nehama Ozery  
or still? Two of them?

Luis Malbas  
That's better. A little bit more, though. So

Heli Nehama Ozery  
it sounds for you like I'm shouting, I invited so sorry about that.

Luis Malbas  
Yeah. How are you? How's everybody in the audience? How's that sounding to you? I. It definitely sounds better.

Heli Nehama Ozery  
Okay. Feedback, okay,

okay. Thank you so much for letting me know, guys. I appreciate it.

So going back to my childhood,

really bored at school, really not feeling smart. I at 18, I joined the military for about two years, where I was a basic training commander, and finally, all the dots connected, and they connected because the learning was so experiential. After two weeks of basic training, where we went through the training ourselves, we transitioned into actually participating and actually applying all the knowledge

in front of each other. And ever since then, after the military and corporate

everything, over there was a fringe as well. I mean, from doing, from practicing, from my peers,

I'm sorry I still see that there's a problem with my mic. Yeah, turn

Luis Malbas  
it. Can you turn it down more? I think that once you got going it, it seems like it got loud again.

Heli Nehama Ozery  
Let me just change the output for a second. Okay.

Luis Malbas  
Is it an external mic, or is it in built into your system?

Heli Nehama Ozery  
Okay. Does it work better

Luis Malbas  
now still more, if you could turn it down even more. I think that going less is probably the way to start like where it's much quieter. I think it's over driving and it's kind of making it staticky. Laura, how is my Oh, and that's a good idea.

Heli Nehama Ozery  
Okay. How does that work? Now? Is it better when I talk, or is it still too loud? It's still a little louder, still a little loud, wondering what I can do differently.

Luis Malbas  
If it is a mic that you can move, maybe move it a little further away from you. No, it's not

Heli Nehama Ozery  
something you can move. But

is it because I made some change, or is it still the same?

Luis Malbas  
No, it's changed. It's still a little loud but, but it does overdrive and kind of becomes a little distorted.

Heli Nehama Ozery  
Sorry about that, guys,

Luis Malbas  
it's sounding better, for sure, though, okay for me, it is

Heli Nehama Ozery  
okay. Now, is it better?

Luis Malbas  
That is better. It's driving a bit, but maybe, yeah, if you talk quieter, it'll probably

Heli Nehama Ozery  
okay. So made the computer a bit further, and let's try it now.

Luis Malbas  
Yeah, that's much better. Okay, thank you. Ellie Sure,

Heli Nehama Ozery  
okay. Going back, I can see that it's better. From Kim, thank you so much for letting me know. Great. Thank you so much, guys. So the dots finally connected for me, and it really made me realize how important experiential learning is, and it got me really interested in the field in general, to really learn how to get people to learn, grow, and specifically change their behavior, because it's so hard for us to change our behavior. And after being in the corporate world for 12 years, leading the OB department, doing a lot of facilitation within the company. I opened my own business, and for about 10 years, I've been doing it across industries and working with doing leadership development programs and experiential learning trainings for lnd HR and managers. And after doing it for almost 10 years, I relocated to the US I am now based in Silicon Valley, California. And when I got here three and a half years ago, I started talking to L, D professionals, and started to, you know. Know, take all my content and tweak it so it will align with the culture. And the first things people told me was Helly, you know, group role play. It will never work in the US. It's just not, it's it's not for us, it's not for the culture we usually practice. You know, when we do role play, it's in small groups, in pairs. People don't feel comfortable doing it in front of a group. And I was like, okay, challenge accepted, because I wasn't sure myself that it it will work here, but I wanted to experiment and at least try it, to say that I did everything in my power to actually try it, because I really, really believe in this tool. Now, before we'll dive into how and what can we why should we want to do it, or how can it help us? Let's start by defining it. What do I mean when I say group, role play? What do you think write it in the chat? What do you when I say group, role play? What comes to mind?

I love it that it says Say something nice when you write in the chat. That's so that's so cute. Okay, so we have acting out a scenario. Everyone talking taking a role in a scenario, acting out of a scenario in a group setting. Excellent. Kim says, like a play where actors play a part, excellent. So when I say group role play, I'm talking about two or more people can also be one simulate a real conversation of a real scenario, okay, and the group also has a part in it, because they observe, they reflect, and then they give feedback on this role play, and I'm wondering, you know, let's, let's do a short poll.

Could you show the poll? I

Luis, Luis, can you show the poll? Yeah,

Luis Malbas  
let's see here. You the poll is, is visible if you go on to the right hand part of the screen, everybody and click on that poll thing. Let's see here, and you can see the results. Let's see. Right now, you've got four votes for for occasionally. I use it when it fits the topic or group. They're only one vote for regularly. It's a core part of my workshops. And then five votes for rarely or never. I tend to use other methods instead

Heli Nehama Ozery  
interesting. So thank you, Raul for sharing, and now we have another questions for you. So most people do it, either occasionally or readily, and if you could put in the chat, what's holding you back from using role play more often in your workshops? I

Yes, okay, Elijah tells me that it's time intensive. I agree can take a little bit more time. Never thought about it. Thank you for being honest. Participate. Participants hate it intensely. Give the course negative feedback. Yeah, I totally get that. I heard so many people talk about, you know, traumatic experience from group role play, that people just, a lot of the times, just don't want anything to do with it. All meetings are on Zoom. Can do it even virtually? That's a great question. It's sad but true. If you don't call it a role play, but a practice activity. It cuts down on the negativity. That's a great way to frame it. I like it. Elizabeth, thank you for sharing. Yeah, so it's, it's complicated, right? It's not something that is the main go to for people. It's hard to do it virtually. It's hard to do it in a group setting. Let's see. I think people associate it with public speaking, which they say is more scary than death for most people. I agree with that as well. It is scary to do it in front of other people, Andrea says I'd be concerned about accessibility for diverted. Learners. This can be deeply uncomfortable for some but it sounds like you have some ideas. Yes, I do, and let's start sharing them. So let's talk about why it's important to group role play and role play in general. So I always look at it like doing swimming lessons, when you take a group to learn swimming for the first time and you teach them the basic movements. You don't send them out to practice it alone or to practice it with a peer, right? You want to make sure they're doing the movements correctly. So later on, when they try it again and do it again, they'll do it in the right way. Now it's not so important for all soft skills, but for most of them, especially the more complex ones, it is very important for people to actually see someone doing it, making mistakes, and then the facilitator correcting those mistakes and also talking about what they do very well, and I want them to see what when it, when the participant does it well, how it affects the entire conversation, because when we're talking about communication skills, soft skills, it's so easy to make mistakes, and we want to make sure that they practice it like a muscle. Okay, if you go to the gym once a year, your muscle won't get stronger. You need to do something that is not natural to you. And I think one other element is super important when we teach skills, but people don't practice it in front of each other. A lot of the times they practice it again with a peer. They make all kinds of mistakes, but in their mind, they feel like they got it, like they understand the skill, like they learned it already, and then they're not applying it and not open to learning it as well. So you get to this vicious circle where people don't really apply communication skills and they're not open to learning them.

So

we understand that it's important, but it's also not comfortable. It's awkward, it's hard, and it's hard and awkward for many good reasons, okay? Because I I teach a framework, right? It's new. Someone needs to do something different than they're used to do it, and it's their first attempt to do it in front of many other people. And every mistake they do, everyone sees it and points at it so it feels exposed and it feels and I also get feedback in front of a group, so everybody's watching me, watching my body language, so it is awkward. I can see that Elizabeth says, If uncomfortable, smaller groups of three and have that person be the observer. Yes, Elizabeth, I agree. When we have an observer, it's a bit better, but again, in complex skills like feedback or conflict management or even listening, in a way, the observer might not see the mistake that the participant is doing because they're not professional enough in it. It's like having say, Okay, let's do a swimming lesson. And two people are right now practicing swimming, and the observer needs to give feedback on how they're doing the movements they just learned it. It's really hard to give real feedback on something you you've just learned. So it's, again, there's a big elephant in the room. It's awkward, it's weird. But on the other hand, with all that, when we put it on the table and when we discuss it, and when people feel safe enough to do it, it has a lot of benefits. So let's talk a little bit about why it's worth it, and if you have any questions during everything that I talked please feel free to put it in the chat, and I promise to address it. So there are many reasons why it's worth it. First of all, research show that it's worth it because it really drives behavioral change. But I can talk from my experience doing it for the past 15 years, with different cultures, different organizations, different industries. When you do it and you do it right, it creates something else in the room. So first of all, it builds connection and trust within the group. It also creates a sense of belonging and. And engagement, because I see that everyone is struggling just like I'm struggling. So it makes me feel like I belong somewhere, and it makes me feel normal, right? It normalizes the fact that communication is hard, and it creates a sense of community. Now, if it's a program and you're going to meet these people again and again, you create sort of safety and an atmosphere and setting within the room where people feel comfortable to sit down, put their heart on the table and feel free to share their insights and their feedback with each other. I just did a session yesterday for a group of people that have been meeting for eight months once in a while, and in the beginning, they didn't feel safe to share feedback with each other, and it was weird and it was awkward. And yesterday we did a very complex exercise where they all were part of a team, and they had to work and compete with two different groups, and they gave each other such amazing feedback. And the unit, they used the framework we talked about, and they were actually able to apply it in a normal discussion and conversation. And when I pointed that out to them and I shared, you know, right now the we're at a place where we can do these kinds of exercises. Eight months ago, I couldn't have done it with you guys because you were somewhere else, you wouldn't be able to actually share openly your feedback with each other. So it has a lot of benefits with the awkwardness. So what I would like us to do now, if it's okay with you guys, to learn by doing, and what does that mean? I'm all for experiential learning, as I've mentioned, and to actually understand what it means to do a role play in a group setting. We the best way to learn it is to actually practice it and try it out. So I'm inviting us as a group to try it out, see how it goes. So the way it's going to go is I will share a very short framework, just so we have, like, a base of something to practice. So we'll do a short exercise to just learn this framework, which is pretty simple, and then I will ask one of you to step up and role play with me. So you will be a manager and I will be your employee, or we can be colleagues, and we'll practice this framework, and then we will give feedback on it, and then afterwards, we'll try and understand what happened here. What happened were the stages we went through and learn from reflecting on the practice that we had. So I'm wondering if this would be something you would engage in, and if anyone would be open to practice the role play in front of everyone. So if you're brave, right in the chat, if you're open to it, just so I know that we're on the right direction, and while you're thinking about it, I want to say a few things about how we're going to conduct this role play, because I think one of the things that scares people the most is that I need To learn something and apply it right away, and I probably would make mistakes, and I say, Yes, this is the reason why we're practicing together. Because I expect you to make mistakes. I want you to make mistakes. I don't want it to be perfect. The reason we're practicing is to see what happens when we apply it, when we apply it like 10% of it, and when we don't apply it at all. So the the objective here is not to get it right. Is just to do it and see what goes and I also have to say, when I've been teaching this framework for 15 years now, more likely if I would do the role play myself, I would make mistakes, because it's some it's one thing to know and understand the framework, and it's a whole different scenario to actually apply it. It's like watching Jeopardy and knowing all the answers. And then standing in the moment, in the game and answering those questions, totally different thing, right? We have a mental overload, and it's stressful. So mistakes are welcome and we want them. Another element that is important is that we don't give feedback on personality. We only give feedback that is fact based. What does it mean? So I will show you the framework, and then the one thing that we will try and look for within this role play is a quote, what was said? What was the specific quote that is fact based, and we'll talk about that. We can talk about other things, like how it made me feel. But when it comes to the feedback, we'll talk about the facts. Um, okay, I will talk more about how we're going to give the feedback after I'll give the also the framework. But if any of you feel like they'll be open to participate in the role play, let me know in the chat

Luis Malbas  
so and I can easily add them to the screen and stuff like. So okay, cool. Thank you. And yeah, so I'll just be back here waiting to see, fingers crossed that you find some volunteers.

Heli Nehama Ozery  
It's okay, if not cool. We'll make it work in anyway. So right now, we're not talking about the role play at all. We're just trying to understand this framework that we're going to learn. So I would like you to write an example of a conflict that you had recently with a colleague, with a manager, with someone at work. And what I want you to write in the chat is a quote, what did the the other person say to you,

so then you're writing what the other person said to you. It could be, for example, you're not listening to what I'm saying. And this is what my colleague told me yesterday. Or we cannot have people in an in person training that can also be a conflict, okay?

The fact that you're writing in the chat doesn't mean that I will choose you for the role play. So don't worry, you can write in the chat, and if you don't want to participate in the role play, you don't have to. That's only to understand the framework right now, to write in the chat an example of a conflict and include a quote of something someone else told you within the conflict you

I'm going to give you another minute to think about a conflict you recently had. If it's uncomfortable to share a conflict you recently had, you can share something that someone shared with you. Doesn't have to be it can be a theoretical example of a conflict you heard about you

Okay, so we have examples coming. So we have regarding identifying an anomaly in the system. There's not that's not that big of a deal. I'm not going to look into it further. That's a great example. I another example. I didn't follow the process because it's inefficient and awkward. I did what I did because I was trying to help. Great example. Thank you, Luis. And he said, I need to set expectations with all employees, not you about people in the project I manage. I'm unable to do any role play. Okay, example from acquaintance. Not me. That's not our corporate culture. Excellent, great examples. Thank you all for sharing. I really, really appreciate it. So now let's really quickly go over a framework, just so we'll have it. So this framework, usually, when I teach it, we go through a process. We go right, we we learn something before we just throw a framework, but it's a fairly simple one. So usually, when we have a conflict with someone else, right, if someone pushes you your you know autopilot will be to push back, right. So what happens is one side pushes and then the other side pushes even harder and it will explode, or the one with the more authority or stronger one will win. So when we want to engage in a conflict conversation, the framework here is to start by finding something to agree on. So finding like this 10% where I can agree with you, and if I cannot agree with you in any way, I will reflect what I understood you were saying, just to make you understand that I listen to you and I understand your point of view, and only after that I will share my perspective on it. Okay? So for example, if there's someone tells me I'm not going to look into it further, right? That's what they told me, right? Then I will start with agreeing or reflecting. I could say something like, yeah, I understand. So from your point of view, it's not that big of a deal, and you don't think we should follow through or do anything else I understand. And then I will say, in my point of view, it's important, because ABC, okay, so I will start with agree or reflect where what I understood and then answer. So what I would like to do now, based on this framework, is write where you could agree or reflect on what the other person has said to you. So take the example you just wrote down. And write what will be your answer, using this specific framework, first agree or reflect and only then answer. You don't have to write your answer, because probably this is the easier part. Just write, how would you reflect it, or what's the 10% you can agree on. When we agree we don't want to agree with we want to say something we actually agree with. So if you don't agree with something, don't say it. Say what you do agree with. And if you cannot agree on anything, just reflect what you understood. So just write in the chat something you either agree on or can reflect on you.

Waiting for your responses to write how you can agree or reflect on

on this conflict.

Okay, we have, I agree that it isn't a big deal as a one off occurrence. I am concerned that it will continue to happen. Excellent. That's an excellent example. All right. Thank you so much. This is a great example. Okay, Kim, I've only been here six months, and I've noticed that about our culture. So that's the way for you to agree with this person that says, This is not our corporate culture, and then you say, Yeah, I agree with you. I've been here for six months, and I've noticed that about our culture.

Excellent.

Okay, so I think we, we got the framework right, and I'm wondering No pressure, because we're not in a scenario where everyone knows each other and there is a sense of safety. So if you don't feel comfortable doing this, I. Role play. I will not pressure you, but I'm wondering, just to give an option to do it, if anyone feels comfortable to do it, we'll do it. If not, I can share the framework without doing the role play. So I'm going to give another minute for someone to step up if they want to practice it, and if not, we'll continue with that. What do you say? Wants to work on their courage muscle

and make mistakes? I of

Oh, good question, Laura, what would the scenario be? So the scenario would be the one that you've mentioned already. So specifically you've mentioned, I didn't follow the process because it's inefficient and awkward. So I would play the person that tells you this sentence and you need to answer me, I might say something back and find another disagreement, just to let you try to use a framework without something you wrote. And that's it. We'll be done. It will take us maybe 90 seconds, maybe two minutes.

So this will be a scenario you already thought about. This is a scenario you've already encountered. It's not something you will need to invent, and we'll just try and see how it goes. When we try to speak the framework, rather than writing it or thinking about it. You

okay, Laura, thank you so much for volunteering. So Luis, could you get Laura to be a co host?

Okay? In the meantime, you can say nice things to Laura for agreeing to participate in this role play. So you can either use emojis or nice word words to support her and say how much you appreciate her volunteering you rock, love it. Okay in the meanwhile, until Luis gets Laura to participate, I want to talk about a few ground rules for our role play. Okay, so the way it's going to go is that we'll do the scenario, and while we're doing scenario, what I'm asking all other participants to do is not write anything in the chat, because doing a role play, as we've mentioned, is very hard, right? You want to focus. So when you see people writing in the chat, you're not sure what they're writing about. Are they saying that I made a mistake? You're wondering what's going on, right? So we want to keep while we're practicing. We want to keep the chat clean. What I would like you to do is write for yourselves. Quotes from our conversation, from Laura and I in mind conversation, so later on, you could give feedback that is fact based. Okay, and after we'll finish the role play itself. What I'm going to do, I'm going to give us all a minute to reflect where we will all breathe for a second and think about one thing that went well and one suggestion that we might have. Okay, so we'll pause. We won't write anything in the chat, we will allow Laura to think for a second for herself and reflect and write it down for herself. I will write it as well. We will all write for ourselves. And then I will invite Laura to share her thoughts. And then I will invite the group to share their thoughts. In the end, I will close it all, and when we give feedback again, it will need to be fact based and focused on growth. Okay, great,

Luis Malbas  
Laura, looks like your mic is off, so I'm going to unmute it, and let's see if we can test your microphone and you could turn on your webcam is. Is, is video necessary? Ellie, no only she wants

Speaker 1  
to your choice. So if that's, all right,

Luis Malbas  
okay, all right, we can hear you. I'm gonna go. I'll hide myself so I can let the two of you take over.

Heli Nehama Ozery  
Thank you. Luis, okay, Laura, first of all, thank you so much for volunteering. I really appreciate it. You're very brave. Thank you.

Okay, any questions before we start?

I don't think so. Okay, so I'm going to share your example with you. I'm going to tell you start a conflict with you based on what you wrote, and then you will try and answer me using the framework, and then I will try, and then again, push back and see a response for you, from you. Okay, okay, so you know what I'm it's, I don't think this is such a big deal, the anomaly in the system, and I'm not going to look into it further, because I really don't have time for this. It's, things have been hectic as is, so I'm not going to look into it further. Sorry.

Speaker 1  
Okay, thank you for letting me know. I do agree that it's not a big deal as a one off occurrence, but I am concerned that it's going to continue to happen.

Heli Nehama Ozery  
Yeah, I don't think it will happen.

Speaker 1  
Okay, um, I feel like I have seen this happen before, but I didn't document it at the time. Would it work for you if I, if I go ahead and if I see it in the future, I'll document it, and then if it happens a few times we can pursue it then,

Heli Nehama Ozery  
yeah, if you have a documentary that it happens like every day, like three times a day, yeah, sure.

Speaker 1  
Okay, so we'll put a threshold on it of three times a day. And if I'm seeing it that often, then I'll come to you again.

Heli Nehama Ozery  
Sounds good. Thank you so much. Okay, I will

Speaker 1  
do that. Thank you. Thank you, Luis,

Heli Nehama Ozery  
we're all applauding here.

Thank you so much for volunteering. What I would like you to do right now is to pause for a second. We'll all pause and think about one thing that you feel you did well, and one thing you feel you should have done differently, and let's all think about it for a second. You're getting a lot of positive feedback from the group, so thank you for supporting her. So let's take a moment for ourselves reflect, and then we'll talk about it.

You tell

me when you're ready. Laura,

Speaker 1  
I don't know what I think. Tell me what I'm supposed to think about one more time. Okay,

Heli Nehama Ozery  
so let's start with how did you feel during the role playing?

Speaker 1  
I felt okay. I guess I was just thinking about you as if you were that person. And how would I respond to them, diplomatically without stepping on their toes?

Heli Nehama Ozery  
Excellent. And what do you think you did? Well,

Speaker 1  
um, I think I acknowledged what they said and and tried to come to a solution we could both agree on. Ish, excellent.

Heli Nehama Ozery  
I agree anything you would have done differently.

Speaker 1  
I feel like I didn't sound very confident in what I was saying, but I was also kind of thinking about most of these communications happen on teams, and so I would have time to think about it and write it out exactly how I would want to say it, as opposed to like Off the Cuff verbally was more difficult.

Heli Nehama Ozery  
Love, it excellent. Thank you so much, Laura for sharing this with us. I really appreciate the fact that you volunteered and for sharing openly. Let's hear from the group, what do you think? What do you think Laura did well? Write in the chat. What do you think Laura did well?

A quick reminder to make your feedback fact based. Okay, so Kim says, positive. Would it work for you if I documented it? Laura suggested a solution, path forward for the leader, excellent. Thank you so much Kim for sharing that. Pam says, strong start with her agreement statement. Excellent. Karen says, focused on a solution, not the disagreement. Excellent. Luis says, I think Laura was great, very patient, and did come to a solution that worked for both of you. Excellent. Andrea says she offered an alternative and was still solution focused. I totally agree. I felt that, yeah, you started with agreeing with me and saying that it does not occur that often, and when I pushed you again, you really focused on finding a solution where we'll both be okay with so that was great. Andrea says she offered an alternative and was still solution focused, excellent. Okay, what do you think could have been done differently? Any suggestions for Laura

Sylvia says the threshold criteria She liked, Okay,

anything else you would suggest? I

So Kim says, when the leader stonewalled her, it was a longish pause. It would have been Luis. I'm not sure if I understand the word, but if I understand correctly, Kim, you mean that you would want it to be more fluent and not have that pause. Okay?

I agree with Laura about not sounding as confident as she would have liked. But is, is a role play, take practice. Takes practice. I agree. Sounds scared. Okay, got it?

Okay.

So one thing about pauses, I can understand what you're talking about, the confidence part. And it is, you know, again, first time to be doing it in front of everybody being so brave I'm using but let's take it to the real world. Sometimes someone surprises us with something we don't expect, and it gets us to really pause for a second. And sometimes when we focus on this pause, and we're scared of our own pause, it gets us to be less confident when we talk. And I want to reframe pauses so when we pause, it could be also a sign of strength, because I'm pausing, I'm thinking. I'm not just throwing an answer, right and, you know, I'm taking the time to think for a second, and when I frame it for myself like this, that it's okay to pause, then maybe I'll read, I will be able to talk more confidently when I reply. Sylvia says that she thinks pauses are good, excellent. I anything else you would suggest for Laura,

seems to be careful with facial expressions when pausing to think, excellent, many leaders will take a pause as the person Yeah, and talking, yeah, I agree. I would say one, one last thing when it comes to that, when we were talking, Laura, you mentioned for me that you will document it now and then we'll pursue it. And I just threw from the back of my mind. You know, let's do it. Only thing happens three times a day, and this is an opportunity to think for yourself. Wait is three times a day too much? Is it enough? Do we need to negotiate how many times it should come up until we actually take care of it? So that's just a question, right? It's just a scenario, but this is something just to think about when we're conflict management, okay? Karen says the threshold seemed like a bit unreasonable. Yeah, that's what I was saying. It was too extreme. Maybe she could have found a more reasonable threshold. Yeah, excellent. Okay, so thank you, Laura for volunteering, and I'm wondering right now if you could open your mic again and share with us, how was your experience from the role play itself like? How would you summarize this experience?

I

Speaker 1  
thought the feedback in the comment section was really nice. How you started out with the positive and then I think going from that to the constructive feedback, everybody was kind of in a positive mindset of like, How can I express this in a positive way? And so I wasn't really scared of what people were going to say.

Heli Nehama Ozery  
Excellent. Thank you so much for sharing that, Laura. I really, really appreciate it. You know, when again, going back to how we do role play. I always think about it as having all of the participants hearts in my hand, and I really need to take care of it with tender and care okay. And when I to do that, I need to calm myself with an open heart and with an open mindset where I'm not trying to find right, where you did things wrong and where you didn't follow the framework, no, I want to see how we can take examples from mistakes that are clear, right? It can happen in this role play, and it cannot happen right? It might have not happened in real life, but this is something that happened right now. So what can we learn from it for ourselves? So we're using someone's experience for ourselves. It's not for them, right? It's a group experience where we're all learning and we're all normalizing our own mistakes, and slowly, if you do it enough with a group, the whole mindset of the group changes when it comes to making mistakes and communicating. So really quickly, I know we're close to time. I want to talk about the framework that this is based on. So it's called the SFS framework, where we set the stage, we facilitate the role play, and then we steer the feedback. So really quickly, setting the stage is the most important part, where, again, I'm putting everything on the table. I'm taking the big elephant in the room, and I'm talking about it, and I'm talking about it honestly, that it's awkward, it's going to be hard, it's not going to be comfortable for anyone, not for me, not for you guys. We're going to make mistakes, and it's okay, and it's going to be a mental overload. When I asked Laura, you know what, something she did well, something she should have done differently. She couldn't even think, right? She couldn't even hear my question, because she was in a mental overload. Because this is what happens when every one of us is in a role play in front of people. Doesn't matter if it's virtually or not, this is how we're going to feel, so we need to be sensitive to it, right? I understand that there is a mental overload, and this is why all mistakes are relevant, and those mistakes will happen to people in the field two days from now, if they apply this framework or if we'll have a conversation, right? So we're normalizing people. We're normalizing humanity. And then after we talk about the elephant in the room, we set very clear rules, and this is my role as the facilitator, to make sure everyone feels safe. So for example, if I see someone in the chat writing, I would comment on it, please. People do not comment in the chat. If we're in person, I would say, no talking, no laughing, because the person will automatically think it's on they're laughing at them. So I would be like a police officer making sure everyone is following the rules, because I want everyone to feel safe and everyone is engaged because they're writing down examples, because they know that we will need to give feedback in a minute, so no one is bored, and everyone is engaged. Second step facilitate the role play. I want to come and. Set my own intentions to come with an open heart, to come with an energy that holds the space in a way that everyone feels safe and no one is being tested. I just need to remind it to myself before we start the role play should be really focused, really short, five minutes, three minutes, seven minutes, tops. We need to put rhythm into it, right, and again, protect the one in the hot seat. Okay. Third step is to steer the feedback. And as we did, we first pause. Everyone takes a breath. Everyone thinks and reflects. Writing down your comments. Kim says that she wrote it on a notepad so she could paste it excellent. And then we're going to check in with whoever practiced. How did you feel? What did you do? Well, what should have you done differently? We want to avoid anchoring bias where they hear something about their implementation from someone else, and it sticks. No, we want them to think first, so we check in with them. We then check in with the group, again, reminding people of the rules, fact based, growth based, it doesn't mean that we're scared to say things that needs to be improved. We just we're going to do it with care. And then the facilitator finishes off with their own remarks, and we wrap it up and with a focus on, okay, what are we going to do next time for ourselves or the key takeaway for the group? So three step framework, start with the setting the stage, then facilitate and then steer the feedback. So to summarize it, I'm going to share a quote that I really, really love by Brene Brown. You can choose courage or you can choose comfort. You cannot have both. And this is the essence of group role play. So I invite you to write one key takeaway you you had from this session. And if you would like to get the slides, feel free to shoot me an email or connect on LinkedIn, and also you can find on my website free guide for experiential learning design, where you can find the framework I use to create this session. I use the cold model, K, o, l, B, I don't know if you know it. Highly recommend it. So you can just sign up with your email, and you'll get the free playbook. So looking forward to seeing your key takeaways in the chat, and if you have any questions, let me know you

Kim says, I'm seeing the value like you explained, learning from other people's difficulties really valuable, and it does take some of the scariness away. Thank you, Kim. I appreciate this feedback. Thank you. Laura said, the step by step process for this is super helpful. Thank you, Laura. Pam like that. Like that, you laid out the framework to provide feedback before we provided it. Thank you. Pam Hallie, would you adjust this framework to our approach when working with older teens, young adults, if so, how

the framework itself, it really depends on what you're trying to teach them. If you are trying to teach them communication skills. Then, then, yeah, I would try maybe if people don't feel comfortable or not safe enough, you can start with having people write down and reading from their notebook the answer, just to talk it. And then having them practice in PIMS and then in small groups, and then do a big role play. So you can play with it, and you can use the group role play as a tool. You don't want to use it too much, right? So you can play with a framework. And for example, I have another framework I use. It's called the B framework, behavior expectation explanation where you give feedback to someone in 30 seconds. So we did a role play where every one of the group, 15 people, one by one, gave me feedback using the three step framework. It was like 30 minutes each. So it took us like 20 minutes to do the entire group. So. We didn't have to do all that, you know, everything right? It was like a short feedback they gave me. I corrected them a bit. Sometimes we open it up for a small discussion. But when it comes to really practicing a complex skill, I I would use it as is after the group feels safe enough. Thank you for this question, Karen, I hope I answered it.

Thank you. Okay.

So. Thank you everyone for joining. Feel free to reach out to me if you have any questions or any comments, and let's connect on LinkedIn.

Luis Malbas  
Thanks, Holly, that was great. Yeah, you know, it was. It's kind of interesting, like, I was like, Okay, I'm sort of thinking about this session in relationship to the immersive learning piece. I just wasn't really expecting it, but it is applicable, right? You know, so. But I think people, most people that are coming in, are thinking, you know, gamification, VR, other things like that, but doing the role play, yeah, does definitely work. So thank you, yeah. All right. All right, everybody, that's it for today. Thanks all of you so much for being a part of this first day tomorrow. We start the day with Jeffrey Riley, build that game with storyline. Then Melinda quilty is talking about getting started with VR at your university, and ending the day with leveling up the engagement in your vi LT customer training, so hopefully we'll see you all tomorrow. Ellie, thanks again. And with that, I'm going to go ahead and close out the session, and we'll see everybody later. Bye, everyone.

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