I've been lucky enough to talk with Alison Sollars a couple of times now, and I'm consistently impressed by her journey to L&D and her path ahead. With a truly diverse background, it's no surprise that she's found herself in our world of instructional design and is making the most of it.
So in this latest Member Showcase, you'll find lots to learn from Alison's journey. With experience in teaching, HR, project management, and lots more, Alison has been able to take a little bit of everything she's learned from the past and apply it to what she's doing now as an instructional designer in healthcare.
And make sure you connect with her on Linkedin or find her at TPLD. You'll be glad you did.
Luis Malbas
All right, we're we're live. Welcome, everybody. Thanks for joining us today for a member showcase which we haven't done one in a while. And it's because I've just been super busy been having a tough time trying to schedule these in. But I was telling us and just a little bit ago in in the greenroom. This series, the member showcase series is so important to me, because I feel like a fundamental part of having a community and building a community is making sure you hear the stories of the people that participate in that community. And so, we have a whole bunch of these member showcases, I think I have like maybe close to 100 that already in our archive that I can post a link later that everyone can take a look at. And of course today our guest, Allison Sollers, who is from landmark health and also works with TPL D, training a path to learning and development, an organization I totally admire and respect and also helped sponsor this last week's event roads, l&d Teachers transitioning to to l&d to instructional design. So let me just turn off one thing here. I'm hearing people log in. So let me shut that down. And we're going to get to asking Allison a series of about 10 questions that I have, maybe more and we'll learn more about Alison's story and her journey to, to instructional design. So Alison, you're even though to me, I've spoken to quite a few times before. You seem like a veteran, l&d Professional. It's almost like, you know, I watched sports and I some every once in awhile, you see one of those rookies that come come into play sports, and they just people say that rookies like, like a veteran, you know, you seem like that, to me. Seems like you've been in this space for a long time. But how long? Exactly? Would you say that you've been an instructional designer.
Alison Sollars
So I got my first job in instructional design last March was when I started, I got the offer in February. So about a year ago, I was looking for a job. And I've been at Landmark health since around St. Patrick's Day is when I started.
Luis Malbas
Wow. And so how much of your background in teaching Do you think really helped you in your current job?
Alison Sollars
Oh, a ton. And I also have a couple of years before teaching in HR operations role where I did direct training and some things like create a job aids and stuff that I didn't know were called job aids at the time, but like, I was like, I can see the link back. But my 10 years teaching in a large district in the United States, and my couple years teaching overseas, I was like always the curriculum person, like I was like, the first person you trained that trained the other teachers on the curriculum, or I wrote district level curriculum in some cases. So a lot of the stuff I've done under a different name, like my degree, my master's degree that I got not long before transitioning, was focused on leadership and operations and gaps performance analysis, because the main resource schools have in terms of where their budget goes is staff staff is where all the money goes, I know we're underpaid, but it's still like they're underfunded, because that's still where all the money goes. So when you look at educational leadership, that's like the big, big focus is how can you get your teachers to do a better job? And how can you close performance gaps with your teachers and your other staff in order to drive student growth and other outcomes that are important to the student in the school improvement plan? So my experience teaching and like what I did, and the things that I liked doing the extras I took on, were, I think all kinds of instructional design related even though I didn't know what it was. And that was just like, where my inclinations were, I guess, like I was upskilling. Towards this without realizing I was for many years.
Luis Malbas
Well, the what I sort of feel like the sense that I get from you, Alison, is that you're a problem solver. And that is a huge part of what an instructional designer does. And I mean, it even sounds like that. Getting your master's. It sounds like you're, you know, achieving that was sort of like a way to solve some problems that you were seeing.
Alison Sollars
Absolutely, yeah. I mean, that was one of the reasons why I wanted to get that. I put off getting my masters for a long time, because I didn't want a master's in English education, which was like, I guess what I would have gotten as an English teacher, I was like, but that's not going to be fulfilling to me. Like I like teaching my course. But that's not I don't have a passion to learn more about that. Like if I do, I'm gonna go read some books and like learn the literary literary history. But that was why I picked educational leadership. It was a long journey to there and that was why I did not pick instructional design or curriculum design because Florida won't pay you for those masters. Otherwise, I might have picked those but
Luis Malbas
interesting, and we haven't even gotten to the questions yet. But I do I'm really curious about the HR ops thing. So what exactly how did you land that role? And what did that bring kind of fear to to your career as an instructional designer?
Alison Sollars
Yeah, so I was in marketing, and I got laid off and went and taught overseas. I was in marketing really briefly for about a year and a half as a coordinator. Doing basically like content writing copywriting. And working with our franchisees, I worked for a restaurant working with our franchisees to develop their advertising in local markets. And working with a graphic designer, because I'm not really a graphic designer by trade, I can do a little bit of stuff. Um, so I did that I got laid off, I couldn't find a job, well actually find several jobs and they all closed down, like literally like a publication shut down after I started work there. An agency shut down after work there because it was a really rough time in 2009. So I went and taught overseas, and then I wanted to come back home because it just wasn't sustainable, just like stay overseas. And I got a job at an event staffing company, originally, they needed an office manager. But it grew really quickly. And so they put me into this role, which was scheduling an Event Manager, which was really like an operations manager working with our clients, at the venues. And it was basically like people putting on conventions. We were working with them. And I didn't sell our services. But I worked in created the staffing plans and like what they needed for the event, and what our employees were expected to do like what skills they needed. Because we did event security, we did like event staffing with like people who could be more interactive man boots, do different things, like we did a range of things, essentially, and had a range of staff. And I hired I hired the security guards and I heard some of the other ones, there was somebody else who hired some of those. And then I also did the onboarding training, I either managed it or I did it myself, depending because we were pretty small office. So I did some of both. And I also created all of the event training. So like what were things were at the event who like just like, usually come down to like Job Aids You didn't like need as fancy elearning for that, obviously. And this was a long time ago, too. But I did like alts for the onboarding, and then job aids and stuff like that, just as part of that role, managing the staff and managing the events and the performance expectations and making our clients happy. And that obviously ties in a lot. But I didn't know instructional design was a thing. I knew corporate training was a thing. But in my area, HR and corporate training roles actually paid less than teaching back then even though it was Florida. Because my Orlando was so depressed for so many years after the Great Recession like it, we didn't really recover till like 2013 2014. And by then I was already teaching. So I stayed in that role for a while hoping it would grow enough that it would be like a good long term move. And the company did better and better and better. But it still wasn't enough to like really, for me to see like growth in the market, I would have had to move to grow. And that's why I went back to teaching and got a teaching job in Orange County Public Schools. So it was kind of like, I considered it for a while. But I had never really taught in America. And I still really wanted to do that and had a passion for that. So I wound up going back to doing that.
Luis Malbas
Wow. So you went from teaching to corporate? And then back to teaching? Yeah. Wow, that's, that's not typical. I haven't seen a lot of that happen. That's really, really interesting. And so it almost seems like the universe was telling you to be an instructional designer with all of these different things that you were doing. It feels like the graduation to where you are now was actually the you know, the perfect kind of evolution. So that's nice. So speaking of what you're doing now, like so what, what are things that you're working on right now as an instructional designer.
Alison Sollars
So um, I have a lot of projects like at any given time, but the main project I'm working on right now is actually really interesting to me, but very, like unsexy work, it's analysis work for the most part, and it is developing a new process for a huge update. So we have a huge update coming up have like, I think 200 or so courses and job aids and pieces in the LMS because we're going to switch LMSs and we've had language updates. And so somebody has to audit it and figure out how to organize our updates and sort of prioritize them. And that's what myself and a colleague are doing. And I'm also creating all of the like process documents and processes to make sure because we're working with multiple teams to make this happen. So it has to be documented. So I've been working I've been like elbow deep in documentation at work I get to do a little bit of like, other stuff too like to get my brain settled easy stuff like you know, I still do some ELearning Development, which to me is the easy, like, okay, I can shut my brain down for a minute and like start to like, put things together. And, you know, every day has something a little bit different. But that's been the big push there. And then with TPL D, we've been working on designing a program for teachers that we had a big volunteer push to design kind of the rough draft last year. And now we're working on refining it and trying to get our first course out by hopefully this summer, after we go through it and have some sneeze go through it. And so that's been a huge, big level process working with a lot of team members. That's been pretty fun as well that Sarah and I've been working on.
Luis Malbas
That's great. That's awesome. I'll definitely have to ask you more about that towards the end. But for your job right now, what is anything in particular that you love that you that about being an instructional designer? And this question is kind of designed to sort of speak to folks that are interested in getting into this career? Like, what is it that that you really like about it?
Alison Sollars
Yeah, I think so. There's the the what do I love about my job is I love that my team is, my team has grown so much. And we've got to establish so much of the processes. So we do get to drive some of the analysis. And it's really like, the problem solving and us getting to go in and solve problems is really a focus. And I don't know if that's always true for everybody. But that has been true for us, because I have a really great manager, who was my colleague, when I first started and got promoted right after I started. So we kind of like have gotten to work together from the beginning, I was one of the first LEDs on our team. And I love kind of that like that I was there from the start and kind of saw it all, like I got to see a lot of things, I think I wouldn't get to see if I'd gone into like a big team and like just been a cog in a wheel, essentially. So that's been a really great thing about my job, but our team is growing. And so there's gonna be a lot more a lot more LEDs soon. We've grown so much since I've been there and move people over and stuff. But in terms of instructional design, what I love about instructional design is that problem solving aspect you mentioned like that we get to solve a problem. And that the solution doesn't look the same every time. I think that might be a mistake. Sometimes people talk about their organization making I mean, mine is usually open to not that I always get my way. But it's usually open to some, you know, conversation about what is the best way to solve the problem. And this means and stakeholders I've worked with have all been open to basically like whatever is best for our employees, our learners, our staff, our onboarding, our metro, like, whatever is best for what we need to do, is what we want to do and setting kind of ego aside and like solving the problem. And that's, that's what I liked in the school that I worked at. Not always like at the district level, but at the school level. And usually the teams that worked out of the district level was like we didn't it wasn't about us. It was about like solving a specific problem.
Luis Malbas
Love it. Love it. Yeah. And you could tell I can, you know, you absolutely sort of exude that problem solving mentality. I'm not sure why just in the way that you answer questions is, it almost seems to come back around to that. So I really admire that. So you haven't quite been an instructional designer officially for a year. But is there anything at this point now like that you wish you had known before you even started working as an instructional designer that you like, if you could go back to yourself, like, you know, last February, February 22. And saying, and give yourself some advice? Is there anything that that you would offer?
Alison Sollars
It's so hard because this is actually like the first time I made a super intentional career move. So I felt pretty well prepared. But I would say that I wish I had really been more confident in the fact that I knew this, but I didn't feel it in my bones because I had been a teacher for so long. And teachers are both sneeze. And like the we're learning experts, but we're also subject matter experts, right? So I wish I had known that it is okay not to learn all of the stuff about what you're designing for, right? Like you don't have to, I'm never going to be I'm never going to know what a nurse practitioner knows. Like, it's just not going to happen. Because that's not something I'm going to go study in that depth. And I can still design training for nurse practitioners that is really useful and really effective working with my sneeze. And I knew that but I still kind of feel you feel this imposter syndrome because you're like, but I'm not the expert. But you're the expert on learning. And I know this, but I think like I really wish I had felt it in my bones more at the beginning because it took a while to really like, you know, something logically, but you don't necessarily know what emotionally at first.
Luis Malbas
I was. And that is it's really profound, because I think that's the first time that I've heard that. And it seems like that would be a really important piece of advice for for new instructional designers. I mean, I'd love to hear feedback from you know, I see leaders in here and Kim and and Heidi Kirby if you guys have ever heard that from anybody before, because I think that I wish I could capture that and why I'm going to capture that. That's what I'll do. I'll clip it and then I'll share it out on the social so that everyone knows that Alison said it. Let's see. So I wanted to ask you about your the skills that you have in ELearning Development, like what do you do for development?
Alison Sollars
So my main tool is storyline at my current job because that's the tool we probably use the most storyline and rise I mean, articulate as a suite, but really storyline is, is the one that is most frequently asked for, or our rise is usually a storyline blocks in them. And then sometimes in Camtasia, which we don't have in my work, but like I work on sidestepping, Camtasia and Adobe Creative Suite. So like InDesign, Illustrator, I like to use things to like make, I like to combine things, right. So like, I don't feel comfortable, like just making things in one tool. Usually, I'm like, sometimes it's a struggle, if I don't have the tool I want. But like PowerPoint, you can do your graphic editing, and if you don't have access to Adobe, or whatever, but I like I'm very particular. So I'll be like, editing a small thing that like probably doesn't matter to everybody, but it bugs me. So I'll take the 10 minutes to throw it into an editing tool before storyline and do little things like that. So I use a lot more tools than I need probably.
Luis Malbas
How did you how did you get where'd you get your storyline chops?
Alison Sollars
Um, where did I get my storyline chops? Mostly elearning heroes and just like making stuff, honestly, like looking at stuff. And then I did do Tim sleds course for a bit. I'm a bad student and I got a job. So I didn't finish and like submit my project. And by the time I was like asking if I should submit it later, he was like, you've made so much stuff by now. Like, do you really want to see you can? I mean Tim would look at it and give feedback. But he was just kind of like laughing a little bit because he knew I had already gotten a job and been making so much stuff basically.
Luis Malbas
Is this something that you did before you started your job at Landmark? Or was that happened? Okay?
Alison Sollars
I found the field and I I'm pretty tech savvy. And I like have some web design experience and things like that. So it took me I spent a good amount of time and storyline. I did the trial first to see if I hated it or not. Because I was like if I hate it, I don't want any jobs that are development based, right? Because who wants to do something all day that you hate. Um, and so I did that. And I was like this is really fun. I use storyline all the time, like for things that are in instructional design, like I rent d&d campaigns, and I'll use it for like puzzles in the d&d campaigns and like, just send it out to people. So I really like making stuff in storyline, I found out it's like an easier way to program things without having to program it. I feel like sometimes. So I learned it in about a month, I would say but only because I had experienced in other software. I don't think you could necessarily go from like not knowing any kind of software to learning storyline in a month.
Luis Malbas
Wow. Okay, now I'm stuck on the fact that you're building d&d campaigns with storyline. I know.
Kim took the words right out of my mouth, you need to talk to Jay Rock because Jonathan rock because he is a dungeon master, also a hardcore storyline expert. So we are going to need to discuss this because it's important. All right, I hopefully my brain can like get past this one. Because that's, um, yeah. So um, well, actually, let me just ask you this because I'm really curious. What do you build in d&d with storyline?
Alison Sollars
So like, let's say you have a one time I did a dream sequence like I had a player who was absent for a session and they were like, the story for the rest of the party was they were like, catatonic and I did like a dream sequence with like puzzles in it, and then there was an outcome for it. And like, it determined, like, they learned some information from it about their backstory that like they would have learned if they'd been in the session. But then there was an outcome where they got like, either a buff or a negative, like on a Wild Magic table, it was basically like, it's a wild magic thing at the end, based on the choices they made, they had like more positive or negative chances, and then there was a randomization element in it. And they wound up like when they did like come out of it, they went like invisible first and couldn't speak. It had to like resolve that in the next session. Like just I think like it's fun for that when somebody can't be there or like if there's a puzzle for the group instead of handing them like a paper or something like I can pull up the computer and have like the the interaction and they can go through like the the puzzle that way or like choose if you're in like a dungeon map like choose different rooms and like you get different outcomes from it. So branching scenarios and stuff. I mean, you could do them much you could I used to do them on like index cards, so you would do things like that much simpler, but storyline just makes it a lot prettier and adds a little bit of like judge to it which can be fun if you have the time.
Luis Malbas
Okay, Allison, we're gonna have to geek out on this stuff. Simply because I play d&d pretty regularly. My My nine year old son is hardcore into d&d and just started LARPing. So that is like my world right now at home. So Yeah, I'm gonna I'll get the J Roc. I'm just to move on, I need to talk about TPL. D and what you do over there. Can you um, talk about that a little bit? Because I think I'm just so curious about about your organization.
Alison Sollars
Sure. So I started as a community manager, Ricky Fischer brought me on board back when he was the VP. And I started as a community manager right after I got this job, because I was just like, they were asking for help with the the LinkedIn group, and like, if anybody could help out, and I was like, Well, I just got this job, I don't really know very much. But if you want some help, I'm happy to like, help out with things. And so I started posting regularly in the community on March during the Daily Post we use of daily posts, now we have about five days a week, it kind of varies. And doing the community management for them, then over the summer, I did like a lot of feedback, kind of sessions with teachers who were looking for jobs, helping them like I would make looms or like, meet with them, helping them or give them feedback on the LinkedIn group, helping them make like pieces or case studies or find volunteer work. And I'm been the vice president since about April or May, since Ricky stepped down from that. And we worked on this large project to get about nine courses together, it'd be nine or 10. In the end, for teachers kind of as a, this is not instructor led, so there's not instructor led or coaching. So it doesn't replace that. But it would hopefully, like give an experience like you might have in a boot camp up for free, essentially like that the experience of like everything curated for you, like collected in one place. Because the biggest request we get is like where do I start? And we can be like, well, you can do this LinkedIn path. You can look at this website, you can look at that. But it's just like so many things out. So it's like curating resources, but also developing things and developing it around a story that makes sense. It is taking a long time, but that's because it's a volunteer thing. So we can only give it so many hours a week. And also it's complicated, right? Like, so it's going to be a big endeavor. But we're really excited about that. And we also do events like tonight, I have a T PLD presents event with Laurel Schuler, who's a l&d hiring manager. She works at SAP concur, and has been nice enough to come speak with us. And we're going to try to do at least monthly events this year, if not more, and try to kind of make sure people have those opportunities to touch base. We used to have a mentoring program, but we honestly outgrew it. Because we did not have enough mentors to meet the need even close like not to meet even like five 10% of the need. So we're trying to revamp that with this course and have them go through the course first and then be able to sign up for mentoring hopefully, which are the number of mentors we have, like who volunteer would be closer to people who've like been through this. Okay, now, it's not just people like they're not sure if they want to do instructional design, or they're not sure what it is like they have something specific to go through. That's the goal. Like that's the big dream eventually.
Luis Malbas
Yeah, totally. That is very, very cool. I know for myself with the mentoring side of things, I tried to set up something through to LDC, but it ended up just me and a spreadsheet, and trying and literally just like manually assigning people to each other. And it was actually very resource intensive. And just because I was just emailing folks and trying to arrange meeting times and stuff and, and it's really, really hard. I still haven't really found, like a successful implementation of mentorship anywhere. I think there might be something out there that someone told me is actually working, but I haven't experienced it myself. So
yeah, yeah. So let's see, let me ask you a couple more questions. How about an instructional design project that you've worked on that you feel especially proud of?
Alison Sollars
I'm the kind of person who like what I feel proud of is not like, looking at it. And like looking at how like technically complexities or like pretty it is even. So I think the thing I'm most the things I'm most proud of are the things that come with that like moment of need. So like over the summer, we had a huge software project for our EMR that basically like we were running out of RAM as like we got towards onboarding more people as we were growing. And we didn't have enough trainers to continue the program as it was. So things had to go to elearning. And software training makes sense to be partially or elearning. So kind of planning and developing that and executing that with a few other designers and kind of leading the charge on that was something I was really proud of in my current Oregon. My boss was really happy I was able to do as quickly as I was like, I was able to come in like way, like ahead of schedule and like under resources, like at a time where I knew like if, if we didn't get it done on time, we would go off the cliff right like and that happens in education too. I've definitely had experiences like that as a teacher. So those are the moments that I'm most proud of like those times where it's like, okay, this would have been really bad if I hadn't done that. Like if I hadn't figured this out.
Luis Malbas
Interesting. Do you like working like in health and medical? Is that something that you were looking for or you just ended up landing there.
Alison Sollars
I was looking for it to a degree like I like complex topics that are my goal was to find like a topic that was really complex and kind of fiddly. Had regulations and things like that. Like I thought that would be more interesting. Because I've always like one of the things that I thought about doing when I was much younger was like going to law school and the kind of lawyer I wanted to be wasn't a trial lawyer. It was like the people who read contracts. So like, I wanted to be like the like, I liked the like fine print. I'm like the only person usually who reads like all the fine print and like, like I knew all the school board policies like and I could like recite them that kind of like nonsense, which is not like useful in most cases, but it's just how my brain works. So healthcare was a field that attracted me for that reason. And also, because it's a helping profession. And the more companies I interviewed with were healthcare based, the more I liked them and liked their mindset, like their teams. So I'm kind of agnostic and what I create, but I love the team atmosphere that I have here. And I think that part of that does come from being a healthcare not that other teams can be great. But like, I get to work with a lot of people who were like, were emergency room nurses and like, rose up to be like, you know, nurse educators and have like, all these different lived experiences that are really interesting to me. And that I think is a benefit of of my job.
Luis Malbas
No, I love I love that perspective. That's really, really interesting. All right, Alison. Last question. If you weren't an instructional designer or an l&d professional, what do you think you would be?
Alison Sollars
I think if I were to look at something new, that I haven't done before, it would be like program management, project management that direction to like, look at like the big picture of different initiatives and programs. I think that's where I would go, I don't think I would still be a teacher because I was starting to get restless. So I think like, I wouldn't go back to teaching. But looking at like wide scale programs and some other like, capacity seems possible.
Luis Malbas
Yeah, I mean, I could tell I think one of the reasons why I find you so interesting is that you actually seem like you would be a good conference producer, like building out a live event. I don't know. I just get that feeling. But yeah, so Allison, thank you so much for doing this. I really appreciate you. Talking with me today doing this member showcase. I love that we're getting to add another story to the community of TL DC. And I know Allison will probably be talking again, at some point, I know that I'd like to work more with Sarah and TPL D and just building out some things. Your TPO D presents thing tonight. What is that? Can you give? Give us more detail. Like how do people find more on that?
Alison Sollars
I can post it if you give me just a minute. Yeah.
Luis Malbas
Because I did. I did not I know you guys did like, you know, webinars and stuff, but I just have never seen a schedule.
Alison Sollars
Yeah, we have been kind of a little off like having a regular schedule for a while. I know that. That Yeah. That should be read. Is that the wrong one? Hold on. Now. That was the that was your link. I'm sorry, I pulled the wrong one. This one, that's the link for the event that already happened. Y'all would have to time travel back. There we go. Um, but there isn't event tonight. It is at 7:30pm Eastern Standard Time. And then like the time at 430 on the West Coast over there with Laurel Schuler, who was amazing. She wrote a great series on LinkedIn about why people should hire teachers for LNB roles. She was a teacher. She was a teacher. She was a instructional designer. She's an l&d director now, and she just has a wealth of experience and a really like, thoughtful spirit. I think too, like she's really a helper like many of my favorite people in l&d are. And so I'm looking forward to that event tonight. And we do, we do plan to try to do something every month for the rest of the year. For the most part, I think there might be some exceptions, like December when we come around to holiday time. But we were going to try to get stuff out there for folks. And I'm so excited. Thank you. By the way, for everybody who joined us. I didn't get to say that because we kind of launched in but it's so nice to see some folks here. That especially Heidi who helped me a lot actually when I was starting she was one of the first people I reached out to and just like asked random questions to on LinkedIn. And she got back to me and was very nice.
Luis Malbas
You know, just real quick, because it seems like you know, a lot of folks when you were just starting out I mean, how did you go about doing that? Did you just find like, whoever was, you know, you know who you saw that was most active and you just started messaging them. It was
Alison Sollars
more based not on who was most active but whose posts or like ideas resonated with me or like if I saw something they did on, like YouTube or something like, and I had a question about it. Like, I think the one of the mistakes people make as well, right? People just be like, how do I become an instructional designer? It's like, I don't know, like I what do you do now? Like, who are you? Because I really don't know because everybody's different, right? But like, if somebody messages, something that's, I think, more like, specific about something I've written, then I can really help them and like, give them insight or like ideas. And that was like, what, where I got like, a lot of good insight. I also went to events, I joined TL DC, like I went to your event last January, and I joined and like, watched a lot of stuff in the archives and was on the slack. I just tried to kind of immerse myself and communities of people who were like minded. I have a passion and things like accessibility to so I have a lot of, like, I talked with a lot of people in accessibility or Dei, I'm neurodivergent. So I talk with a lot of people who talk about neuro divergence. And just like building relationships has been something that's always been valuable to me. And I think that's probably important in instructional design to like building relationships with other people in your organization. So that's, I just tried to build authentic relationships, like not for an outcome. Like I wasn't like, Hey, give me a job at your company. I mean, sometimes I was if I wanted a job at their company that was open, and they were recruiter, but like, you know, for the most part, it was just like, Hey, you said this interesting thing. Where can I learn more about this? Or like it was all about, like learning and getting feedback.
Luis Malbas
So much good advice. Wow, Allison, thank you, I am going to clip a whole bunch of stuff from this one, and post it out there. Because I think it's been really, really, really, really great stuff. And with that, I'm going to go ahead and wrap it up. Thanks, everybody, for joining. I mean, it was nice to see everyone haven't done a TLD cast in a while. And I'm going to try to get back on these weekly. Just a reminder in a few weeks I in February, we're going to be doing a data measurement and analytics event. We're just finishing booking that one up now. So that's coming up. I'll have that information out on the website soon. And then in March, we're going to be doing our women of lnd event. And I know Allison, you'd expressed interest in helping in that one. So I know that one is already getting some getting a lot of buzz around it. I've been getting lots of messages. So we'll get that one out there for everyone to sign up for soon. And with that, I'm going to go ahead and close it out. Thanks again, everybody. Thanks, Alison. And I'll try to pop in this afternoon for that TPL D presents. I'd love to hear that one. Oh, that'd
Alison Sollars
be awesome. Thanks.
Luis Malbas
Bye, everyone. Bye