The Power of Psychological Safety in Talent Development with Laine Istvan

Luis Malbas  
Everybody, we're back. I know just a short break between the last one between Nicole session in this one. All right, I see Rebecca is here and Bobby and Sylvia. Jan is back. Ivan, excellent. All right in there, Cindy, is my share. Thanks, everyone for being here. So last session of the event and pretty much the last session of the year for TL DC. Just want to thank everybody for joining us for this event this week. And just for everybody that's been supporting CLDC throughout the year, we did 12 Events, and I'm going to collect all that stuff, I actually need to send out kind of a an annual roundup to all of the members, everyone has access to all the recordings for everything. Just because we had a really spectacular year as far as everyone sharing and the impact I think that CLDC has had. And I'm looking forward to 2020 for being even better. So. So yeah, stick around with to DC. And just so that, you know, the next event that we're planning is actually another sort of transitioning to l&d event that's going to take place next month. We have a tentative date, I think the week the second week of January set but we might rethink that a little bit just to make sure we give us some time for the holiday. The planning is all in place, but so next month that we're going to start the year out with with that event. And speaking of transitioning to l&d we have Laney Laney Laney is one here who did pronounce your last name correct. Okay. But I know we met you through um, I think it was you first started come around it with the with the freelance group ID Lance was it? That's right. That's right. You're doing bizdev with them? Yeah, and you're learning consultant instructional designer and educator former K through 12 teacher to transition into l&d and 2020 After discovering a passion for instructional design in the midst of teaching seventh grade civics. Wow. That must have been interesting. Like, I love instructional design. you've collaborated with corporate organizations and higher ed institutions with both a full time employee and a freelance ID. Laney has a passion for employee wellness and loves balancing your time between academia and corporate learning. She is a self proclaimed introvert, but loves meeting new colleagues and making connections and lives in sunny Tampa, Florida with her husband, two teens, two cats and one rabbit. And with that many thank you so much for doing this one the power of psychological safety and talent development. I'm gonna go ahead and hide myself from the screen and let you take over. Okay,

Laine Istvan  
sounds great. Thank you so much, Luis, I appreciate that introduction. I'm gonna get myself set up here. So hopefully, I don't lose you. Good. Okay. So yes, I'm Lanie Thank you, everyone for joining today. It's 5pm Or no, not quite 3pm my time on a Friday. So I really appreciate y'all taking the time to come out and listen to my talk. And I'm just so happy, you know, to be a part of this community. I think I was a part of the community before idealliance. But I think that's how Luis and I got connected. So yeah, I've been following the TL DC for a while. And I just love this community. And I just love the opportunities for growth. So I'm definitely excited to be here today and share some of my passion topics with you all. So today, I'm going to talk about the power of psychological safety and talent development. And I've listened to just about every talk that has taken place over these last couple of days. And I feel like really the the idea of the topic that underpins everything is psychological safety. And so let's get started. So, I'm Lanie. And as Louis said, I am very passionate about employee wellness, and self awareness, and just growth and all those things. I am a former teacher, I taught for 15 years before that I actually did work in corporate America, so to speak, it was during the.com industry, and I did some sales and marketing and then had family moved into education. And it is true. I discovered a passion for instructional design when I was teaching civics because civics is a topic that in the state of Florida, it is required for students to pass an end of course exam in order to graduate high school, even in seventh grade and I was like oh no, I cannot have this on me like no child is going not to graduate because of seventh grade civics. So I really dove into strategies, learning strategies, technology really how to make civics and government. Interesting. And that was a challenge in and of itself. But through that is where I really found that passion and that love of just putting together instructional strategies and curriculum and just pulling things together. So. So I just wonder is if there's any former or current teachers on here today, maybe you can give a thumbs up or a little emoji. So as I said, I started in corporate went to education, and then now I'm back in the corporate space. And throughout my career, my careers, actually, there's been a lot of ups and downs, right, a lot of highs, a lot of a lot of lows. And I've had my fair share experiences of, you know, things that went well, things that didn't things I learned as a younger person, things not to do things to do. And so really, this is more of a passion thing for me. And really what my goal today is to share with you my experience in my research, and how I can bring all that together, because when I first heard the term psychological safety, it brought together a lot of concepts and ideas that I actually didn't have the language for, like, I knew what I had experienced, I knew what I had gone through both good and bad. But when I actually came across this idea, and this terminology, I was like, wow, that that really resonates with me, and I'm really interested in learning more about this. And you know, why, why this happens, and you know, how we can make things better from this perspective. So I like to start with a quote, when dealing with people let us remember, we are not dealing with creatures of logic, we are dealing with creatures of emotion. And I think that is one thing that we try to cast aside some times, you know, don't be so emotional. Think think with your brain, don't think with your heart. But really, the bottom line is that that's who we are. As humans, we are emotional beings. And I am reading this book. It's called the source and it's by Dr. Tara Swart. It's very good. It talks about, um, she's a neuroscientist, she's a psychiatrist. And she talks all about the brain and the processes that we go through when when, you know, just trying to learn something new, or adopt new habits and why we do the things we do, why we don't do the things that we should do. And she talks about emotions, and that there's really like two sides, we have the survival, emotions, which are sadness, fear, shame. And those kinds of emotions can lead to, you know, they're protecting us, they're, they're keeping us safe, really. And so we have avoidance, we have self preservation, and on the extreme, we have catastrophic thinking, right? Like, the worst thing is gonna happen, I can't do this, because this will happen. And, you know, I'll never recover those kinds of things. And then we have on the other hand, attachment emotions, which are like joy, excitement, trust, and of course, love. And so those are the things that make us feel good, you know, that that dopamine hit that, you know, makes us want to do more of that, and it's the reward side of our brain. And then she says, surprise, can go either way. So it depends what the surprise is, I suppose. If it's a bad surprise, then you go in this direction, if it's a good surprise, you go in that direction. But I think that understanding that first and foremost, people are emotional, is really where to begin. And then that's okay. And accepting that and, you know, letting people know that, I understand that that's okay. So, what is psychological safety? Amy Edmondson who is a professor at Harvard, she spent decades studying psychological safety. And so we have a few different explanations of what it is, is a shared belief that the team is safe for interpersonal risk taking. It's a belief that one will not be punished or humiliated for speaking up with ideas, questions, concerns or mistakes. And I apologize for the typo there. But I did come across an article today that I thought I just had to put put this quote in here because it it made me smile. The question was, what she thought about apparently el Elon Musk said some negative things about psychological safety. And so her response to this was psychological safety is in fact It's explicitly about being uncomfortable, doing things that are uncomfortable in service of the goals of the innovation project, being able to disagree with the boss, being able to talk about failures and mistakes, and to ask for help when you're in over your head. And, of course, any of my educators here today will recognize Maslow's hierarchy of needs. And this really fits into safety needs, you know, the second one from the top. And it's just, it's just a known fact, like this is, you know, research, it's what people need, in order to get to that next level, all the way up to self actualization, and meeting goals and striving for new achievements and accomplishments, especially at the workplace. So in order to be able to do that, we have to feel safe, we have to have our needs met along the way. I pulled up some research just to kind of give this a little data support. And one of one research article I came across says, the conclusion is when people feel safe at work, they are more likely to experience transformational learning and adapt to changes, which benefits both the employees and the organization. This was a qualitative study done in the workplace. This was in 2020. And then it, this is interesting, I have the Tech Trends. I'm sure some of my fellow colleagues out there also have those tech trends. And that was a research article and their psychological safety can be used as a tool for productive failure in a learning environment, normalizing failure, learning from mistakes, and building relationships, that value safety are key to transformational learning. This study was actually done in a I think it was a K 12 setting. And so they were really talking more about creative path making and taking risks and allowing themselves to fail. i One key thing that they did talk about in this article was how important it was for the teacher to also feel safe, and be okay with failure and mistakes, and they themselves not being comfortable with not having all the answers. And I think that that can really be applied to any place, right any organization, not just a teacher, but even even a leader in an organization. Leaders have to feel that as well. In order to support a culture of psychological safety, they also have to feel safe.

This article was about servant leadership, it positively influences psychological safety and encourages pro social rule breaking and pro social rule breaking is when you challenge the status quo or or rules for the gain and the benefit of everyone, not just for self serving purposes. When employees see more compassion and encourages and increases safety and pro social role breaking, the study suggests that leaders should encourage encourages behavior rather than punish it. And then the last research I have here is transformational leadership is a significant predictor of an employee's ability to manage tough situations, which strongly motivates their innovative work behaviors. And so same concept, right? It's, we're all going to have tough situations. It's not, you know, we all have challenges. But if we want transformation, then we have to be comfortable with supporting people. Psychologically, right, not not as necessarily a mental health counselor, but just in the sense of this is a culture that it is safe to ask questions, it is safe to make mistakes, it is safe to say something that's wrong and not have that fear of I'm going to look foolish, someone's going to make fun of me those kinds of things. And I know I think it was Jeremy had a really great talk yesterday about transformation versus transaction. So really felt like this aligned well with that. So, now we have the research. So what taking this a step forward? Where can people go when they feel psychologically safe within an organization and not physically go but like, where, where what can they achieve? Alright, so we have resiliency, right? And we know that resiliency is all about being adaptable, it's facing changes and challenges and still feeling like not everything is hopeless, that There are things that they can do to overcome overcome the situation, they can still think outside of the box, they can, they can come up with solutions and ideas. And so even though there are going to be setbacks and challenges that with open communication and support of your team support from your leadership, and knowing together, that you can address any changes or challenges that are coming your way, then you can, you know, be resilient, and you can come back from any setbacks, and you have a support system, that's going to be behind you, so that you can, you know, going forward, move forward, because that's what's gonna happen, we're gonna move forward, we can't move backward. So just learning from that, and being adaptable, and being flexible, is really important and a great, great benefit. And then we have authenticity. So when people feel psychologically safe, they are free to be themselves, right, and all their weirdness or maybe not just weird, but you know, just being who you are. And knowing that that's okay, and feeling safe with that. And when people feel safe, that they can come out of their shell and show who they are, and be who they are, and share their ideas openly without a fear of, again, you know, being ridiculed, or someone shutting them down. Those kinds of things will, will lead to people closing up because it's not safe, it's not safe for them to express and be, you know, who they are and who they want to be. And so resiliency and authenticity, is really an incredible byproduct of the culture that is psychologically safe. And we'll we'll learn why that is in just a few moments. And then also risk taking. So when people feel comfortable, they feel that there's not going to be any negative consequences. They don't necessarily have that fear, right? That fear of Oh, my gosh, I am going to lose my job. If I make a mistake, you know, I'm going to be in trouble. They're not going to give me any more responsibility, those kinds of things, right. So there's no fear of of punishment, there's there's only failing forward. And so with resiliency, authenticity, risk taking, companies that really foster this are going to have more creativity, and innovation within their organization. It's it's kind of just a natural thing that happens. People want to they want to contribute, they want to do well, they want to do great things. They want to do great achievements. They can do that, when they feel that they are valued, appreciated, understood, it's okay to be who they are. There's no risk of there's always risk of failure, right? We can't get away from that. But it's how we position it and how we look at if you make a mistake, or you fail, what's what is the worst thing that can happen? And then, you know, you you work through that. But organizations that go further and find more success and expand, they really truly do value creativity and innovation.

So what are some organizational benefits? Well, we started talking about this, but when when people feel safe, the organization can now make, take that they can take that safety, and now they can do even greater things through their, their company and what they're trying to do. So solving complex business problems, increasing productivity, bringing new ideas onto the table, changing trajectory, right? It gives them a competitive advantage. reduces cost increases revenue. These are all things that are tied to the business's strategy, in their goals and their vision and their mission, all important things, but the people who are responsible for the tactical taking that That tactical activities, right? To help the organization achieve their strategic goals. They have to feel like they, they, they make a difference, and they have to feel like they feel safe. And so to be able to do these kinds of things, solving complex business problems, that's, you know, knowing that, you know, we don't always have all the answers. But if we can think outside the box, we can come up with some new answers, we can come up with some new ideas, we can, we can brainstorm, we can look at things that are uncertain, and we can give them a try, you know, increasing productivity. And that's really, you know, it's kind of what I said earlier about people wanting to do good, they want to find success, they want to be integral part of the organization, they, they want to help. And so if they feel good about what they're doing, and they feel supported, then they're in there, productivity will just go up. And unique and novel business practices. Again, this goes back to just that authenticity, right, and taking risks. People feel comfortable to take risks, they feel supported, then there's a brainstorming that can happen, there's collaboration, there's, you know, trying new things, there's looking at things that didn't work in the past, and, you know, how can we try those things now? How can we make some changes and, and go forward and take something new and unique from something old? And of course, a competitive advantage, right? Every, every organization wants that. And so, you know, leaders, managers, executives, they can start looking at some unique ways of their, maybe their messaging, you know, marketing, getting out there, their ideas, their branding, their sales, and just having some competitive advantage over their competitors, and reducing costs and increase revenue. Again, those those things go hand in hand. You know, if you have a competitive advantage, then you know, you're going to increase your revenue. So how can l&d help? I have another book that I want to share with you. psychological safety playbook. This book is awesome. And it's just got some really great, practical, it's very, it's a short, easy read. It's got some very practical tips on how to you know, just help people feel more psychologically safe at work. Okay, so it's people in l&d, I feel like generally, we just love people, right? We love helping people. We love lifting people up helping people learn, helping people be their best selves. That we're just we're human centered people. And we love that. So these are some practical tips on how we can support a culture of safety. So if communication and listening and really communication is it's such a big word, right? There's a lot that goes under communication, there's verbal communication, there's nonverbal communication, but basically encouraging open dialogue with people and letting them know that it's okay to be open and share your thoughts and any concerns. Any questions? It's okay. Maybe asking questions like, What did I miss? Did I miss something? In meetings, sometimes there can be like this culture of every you know, people agree, maybe specifically ask for a dissenting opinion. Okay. This is great, but I want to hear an opposite opinion. I want to hear an opposing viewpoint. Another thing you can do is instead of having people take multiple turns, everyone speaks once before someone speaks twice. I thought that was an interesting one. As as an introvert myself, I know that sometimes it takes me a little bit to think and reflect before I turn around and answer questions. So I really want to take in the ideas and the viewpoints before I turn around and and give feedback. And so I know that there are other personality types that they, they need to think while they speak. So in order for them to process they have to be speaking and kind of get out their ideas and bounce those ideas off of other people and leaders and team members and things. So that that suggestion was really intriguing to me, because there have been times that I have been quiet, but not because I didn't have anything to say more, because I need that processing time. And so that kind of goes down to the inclusive practices, which I haven't gotten to yet. But that's definitely one way to be inclusive, for sure. And then active listening. It's a great soft skill, right? I'm sure many of us have taken soft skills training on active listening. But really, it's all about just listening to understand and not listening to respond. Because a lot of times I've done it to where I'm listening to someone and I'm like, Okay, I need to have my response ready, or I need to be able to answer that question right away. But that's really, when you when we do that we aren't being fully present, and listening and hearing what the person was really trying to communicate with us. So of course, just trying to hold off on that until we have all of the information. And that's just part of empathy as well. Self awareness, self awareness, it's recognizing that we make mistakes, too. And we also face challenges. And sometimes we tell ourselves stories that aren't necessarily true. I love this story. If anyone has Netflix, there is a talk, I think it's a TED talk, or some kind of talk. It's by Brene. Brown. And you can give me a thumbs up if you've seen it. But she, she, she's a very, she's all about vulnerability, right. And she tells the story of how I won't tell you the whole story. But she was had an experience with her husband and her husband wasn't responding in the way that she anticipated him to. And her brain just started going making up all these stories about what was going on. And what I took away from that was, yeah, we kind of do if someone doesn't email you back right away, or they're texting, you text someone, and then you see like, the little dots, and then they stop texting. And you're like, Where'd they go, they're not responding to me, or they leave you on bread, or whatever the case may be, our brain starts starts making up these stories. So if we can just be a little more cognizant of that, and try little modeling, and recognizing courage and other people, I think that will go a long way. And of course, mindset shift, you know, going from thinking, I can't show weakness, I can't admit mistakes, because I'm supposed to be the person that has all the answers, when that's really not the case. Right? That's, that's not psychologically safe. That's the opposite of psychologically safe. So if any of you are if I'm connected with you on LinkedIn, you might have seen recently I posted a story that I was dragging my daughter around, and I almost hit a mailbox. I didn't hit the mailbox, although I have done that once or twice in the past, but this time, I did not do that. But I came very close. And if anybody else has almost hit a mailbox, maybe give me a thumbs up, so I don't feel so bad.

But, um, anyway, so I almost hit this mailbox. And my daughter was like, her eyes were saucer. She screamed at me, Mom, stop. What are you doing? And I was like, Oops. And I just played it off, like, nothing happened. And I thought that that was the right thing to do. Because I was really trying not to let my emotions get the get the better of me. I was really trying to just breeze over the fact that yeah, I made this mistake and I'm totally embarrassed and it's okay. Well, later on that day, she came to me and she was like, Mom, I can't believe you didn't even say anything about that. You almost hit this mailbox. And you didn't even say a word. And I was like, You know what, that was wrong. I should have acknowledged it in the moment. And I should have made it a teachable moment. But I didn't. So that taught me you know, it's okay to admit mistakes and show that hey, sometimes it's it's, we do these things. It's not a weakness. It's actually a strength. Oh, so it can definitely promote a culture of continuous improvement if we can, you know, admit when we're wrong. And you know, saying, What can we learn from this? That's all we can do, right? What we can do is learn from it and move on. So inclusive practices I mentioned earlier about the introverts versus the extroverts. And yes, that that's definitely been my experience. And that's okay. Because everybody's different. It's what makes the world go round. It's, you know, variety is the spice of life. But there are things that we can do to be more inclusive of, of everybody. And to show everybody that, you know, everybody's opinion matters, not just the vocal ones. And doing so can really reinforce just that everybody belongs, and everybody has something of value to add. I put these two bullet points underneath inclusive practices, elevating voices and be the first follower. So elevating voices is a concept that I recently heard, as far as if someone says something, and this might this might have even happened to you say something in a meeting, but it doesn't catch on. And then 1015 20 minutes later, two days later, someone else says it, and they're like, wait a minute, I said that. Um, so the idea here with elevating voices is to be that person that says, hey, so and so had this great idea, let's let's Can we talk about it, can we, you know, put this on on our agenda, let's, let's explore this more. And so elevating voices, especially of people that are more vocal, can be a really great way to be inclusive. And then be the first follower, there's this video on YouTube, all you have to do is type that in the search, be the first follower dancing guy, promise you, you'll find it. And it's basically, I don't even know where it is. It's, it's just this video, that's a bystander tuck. And it's this man who's got his shirt off, and he's just dancing, just not a care in the world and kind of people are watching him and, you know, and then a little while into it, someone else joins. And the PERT, the second person that joins is the first follower. And then slowly, but surely, like more people come into the fold, and they all start dancing, and then everybody's dancing. And I really love this, because it kind of shows that, you know, everybody needs a first follower. And even if, you know, the idea might might not be too popular, you know, we still could support each other, and, you know, show that we can, we can. So, like I said, support each other and bring these ideas out, that maybe might not have gotten so much attention, for whatever reason. And then the last thing is managing up, I love the term managing up, because it really puts more of the responsibility and the onus on the person to take that responsibility and take it to the next level of how can I engage with my leadership to whatever the case may be upskill take on more responsibility, you know, bring bring different ideas, to their attention. Because leadership and managers, they're just people to write, they've got things that that they're looking at, strategically throughout the organization, but they're also looking at things, tactically, you know, with their teams. So, you know, they just sometimes might need a little help with these ideas, or any ideas in general, but since we're talking about psychological safety, they just might need a little bit of, you know, leading leading them to water. So definitely consider managing up. Because, like I said, we're all just human, and we're all just trying to do the best that we can. I put some non examples in here. And just because I thought it would be good to show some non examples. So we've got superficial recognition, right? Just saying, Hey, good job. I like the way you did that, you know, fist bump. Instead, try to give some more specific feedback. I know in the classroom and in education, that was kind of like a big thing, where we went through this phase and I think that they're still in this phase but giving more specific feed back, because that's how people grow. They can't grow. If you said they did good, well, what specifically did they do? Do? Well, so, definitely, superficial recognition is is not a good example. So, of course, selective listening, you know, just hearing the things that you only want to hear, and not really having that atmosphere of, you know, trust and, you know, having diverse perspectives. And like I said, just not valuing what other people have to say, that's not not example. And punitive feedback, you know, just being very critical, and correcting behaviors or just, you know, in front of other people that that's a big, that's a big no, no, in my opinion, because that's definitely not psychologically safe. As a teacher, I was corrected one time, my teaching partner and I, we went on a field trip. And this is kind of a funny story. We went on a field trip to like a petting zoo. And a goat had chomped on one of my students arm, no teeth, well, I don't know, probably had teeth. But it was, you know, there wasn't, there was nothing, there was no breaking of skin, there was nothing. So we were going to wait until we return to the school to call the parent. And when we returned to the school, after our field trip, we got pulled into a meeting that wasn't about that, but it was about something else. But at the end of the meeting, the principal pulled us aside in front of everybody and our school visitor, and really gave us a walk for, for not calling the parent right away, highly embarrassing. I don't recommend that. So no punitive feedback. And of course, micromanagement, just the excessive like control and checking on people. And, you know, what are you doing today? And, you know, these are adults, right, we have to have some level of trust, and understanding that people know what they need to do. And that's, that's what they're there to do now. Sometimes they don't, right. And that's, that's a different route. That's, that's a different way in terms of like, evaluations and things like that. And then, of course, unclear expectations. You know, just saying, Yeah, I like that idea. Show me something, you know, well, let's be specific. So people can, you know, have their expectations of what, what you want from them. So, just, you know, might, not having those, those clear expectations can give people a feeling of uncertainty. And then of course, uncertainty leads to not feeling psychologically safe. And so, I invite you to connect with me, you can find me on LinkedIn, if you would like to email me, you can email me too. And I thank you all for joining me today. And I appreciate your time.

Luis Malbas  
Wow, this is great. Any so um, I am just curious, you. What is your background getting into into this? Like, why? Why is this something that you're passionate about?

Laine Istvan  
I have always just really been passionate. In the self development field, no. Self awareness, mindfulness, just kind of exploring why we do the things we do. I am like, a self help book junkie. I am drawn to self. It's just a passion. It's just a passion of mine. Yeah,

Luis Malbas  
so I mean, for the psychological safety part of it. I, you know, because, of course, your entire session, I was just kind of reflecting back on instances where I may not have felt comfortable. You know, I mean, I just definitely I've experienced that throughout my career, whatever, doing multiple things, you know, I just haven't felt psychologically safe in lots of instances. And then also just reflecting on instances where I may have also made other people feel unsafe, just by maybe something I've done or, or, you know, whatever. And, of course, I'm, you know, definitely need to, to purchase that book, because I'm so interested in it. You're right, it really has Yeah, and I put the link to Amazon. I think that um, hopefully that is the right, the right link, but I do think that this is a lot more impact. Until then I will definitely more impactful than I even realize. I know that. You know, I'm just a few years ago, I remember having a manager that, that she didn't tell me this, but other people told me that the, the way that that the team is managed is that you get just dropped into the deep end of the pool, and you have to just figure out, you know, whether or not if you if you can't figure out how to swim, you're just not going to make it. And I'm just like, that's, that's, and yeah, exactly. I'm like that, that went when, you know, when when I heard that, I remember just thinking myself, then why am I even going to, you know, why why even try to participate? That's just, you know, you just want, you know, if I if I'm having issues, you know, and I can't swim then that I'm just, you know, done for like, well, that doesn't make me feel safe at all. Not

Laine Istvan  
at all, you already feel defeated. Right? Even why even try? Right,

Luis Malbas  
right. And so, I mean, it was really disappointing. You know, not I mean, of course, I, I mean, not, of course, but I ended up performing, like, you know, highly of, you know, and so I didn't need to worry about that. And that manager is no longer around. So, so so. So that's good. But yeah, it's, it's, it's interesting. And I do think that it is something that like every leader should, should, should be aware of. And, and it's not a topic that I think we've we've discussed much about here until DC so, so I really appreciate you bringing this up.

Laine Istvan  
Thank you, I'm so glad you found it useful. I know, I was watching Nicole's presentation just before this one. And she did mention a lot of things that she does with her team. And I thought you're very psychologically safe, you know, some some of the practices that that she has. So I do think it's really important. And I think that, you know, I love this quote by Maya Angelou, when you know, better you do better, right. So, if you didn't know, before, I think we know like, instinctively like what feels right, and what feels wrong. But sometimes as as I mentioned, at the beginning of my presentation, sometimes we don't necessarily have the language for it, right? We don't We haven't come across any literature or research or books or anything like that. And so when when we find it, and we have that aha moment, like, oh, yeah, this, this is what I've been feeling or what or what I'm thinking, then we have, you know, frame of reference. Yeah,

Luis Malbas  
no, totally. And I love that you're presenting this at an l&d event, you know, because it is something that I feel like, you know, could is relevant, while just any conversations about the workplace, but it definitely is more of a, you know, I think that, that it would be more common to see something like this, maybe at a leadership event. But coming from the training side, it's still just as important, you know, maybe even more so in a lot of ways. So, so thanks for bringing this one up. Lanie. You're

Laine Istvan  
welcome. Thank you. And I think, you know, yes, it definitely is part of leadership, right, leaders definitely need to take the reins on establishing that culture of safety and the environment that, you know, they want to lead their teams and, and, of course, this this book is really geared toward leaders. But I really think individual contributors, they can they can take the reins as well, you know, it doesn't, it doesn't take much, you know, to do what's right. And even if you're in a meeting, and someone had a good idea, and it was kind of glossed over, you think it's a good idea, you can bring it back circle back to it. You know, say everyone want to talk about what Louie said, I think that, you know, that's a good idea. So there's things that we can do individually. I feel too, psychologically safe. Yeah.

Luis Malbas  
I like what Bobby mentioned here, too. A huge part of this is just giving others others the grace as well as yourself to grow. Yeah. And that is a great way to to wrap up this. This final event from 2023 for TL DC. Let's see Cindy adds here. We have spent the whole last year to teach train to reinforce psychologically safety trainings in my org. Yeah, this past year. That's great to hear Cindy Belkin seems to be a man amazing place to be so yeah, and this is it's great just to have this conversation in this community and for it to be here because I don't really see it any where else like in other you know, sort of curriculum. So I really do appreciate you Lainey having this.

Laine Istvan  
Thank you, Louise. Appreciate I'm grateful for you giving me the platform. Thank you. Yeah,

Luis Malbas  
absolutely. All right, everybody. That is it. Thanks again for for spending the last couple Well days with us, I really am glad that you were here and that you've that you support to LDC I really am looking forward to next year. I think it's gonna be great. Right now I'm actually getting messages while while this session was going on about planning for for the next event that's taking place in January. So the fun isn't over. We're, we're right in there getting going again. And so hopefully, we'll see you at the next one. If I don't see you in, in Slack or anywhere else. I hope all of you have a great holiday season. And please reach out to me if you need anything you know, on LinkedIn or in Slack or just email me Luis at the TL dc.com Let me know what you need. Always happy to help and always love to hear your ideas about how the community can help and and just help other people get better what they do. So with that, closing out the session and everyone have a great weekend. We'll see you next time. Bye. Hi